Wajahat Ali and Stuart Stevens deliver a blistering, clear-eyed conversation about power, cowardice, and conviction in American politics. Wajahat frames it as a battle between “Vichy Democrats and MAGA Nazis,” and Stuart—once a top GOP strategist who helped elect presidents—calls it what it is: moral collapse.
Together, they dissect how Trumpism metastasized from fringe to foundation, how the GOP’s embrace of cruelty and conspiracy made extremism the party’s organizing principle, and how Democrats keep mistaking timidity for virtue. From Zohran Mamdani’s insurgent victory to Chuck Schumer’s weak leadership, from ICE raids to billionaire rot, this is a conversation about fighting for decency with the same fire authoritarians fight against it. Tune in for an unflinching reckoning with the politics of surrender and the power of standing tall.
