Yes it is a terrible, terrible, thing that the young was shot and killed. I have to say all the leaders on my side of the asile came out and condemmed it and asked after his wife and children.I hope the people who are against maga behave themselves. However one thing I don't want to hear is both sides stuff. Trump made fun of Paul Pelosi at his rallies .. I don't remember any out pouring of concern for the people in Minnesota that were killed in there home. My real concern today is what Trump might do with what happened yesterday .. I'm afraid for my fellow americans . He is the most dangerous man who has ever been in the WH. lost in america!
What if there was a different motivation for the shooting? For years, Charlie Kirk wanted the Epstein files released. Then he stopped talking about it. Perhaps someone is angry he is part of a cover up? The MAGA in-fighting, power struggles, competing religious extremism, disappointed believers....it's a tension kettle starting to boil over. I fear this will be worse than any "owning the libs" stuff. We don't know why Mr. Kirk was targeted. I hope the facts come quickly, so we can figure out what comes next.
I agree with you on this stuff Trygve. And you are correct about the "careless" rhetoric which has arisen and has inflamed many minds of our country. Misinformation hasn't helped either. It used to be both sides of the aisle had some semblance of TRUTHS. This isn't the case anymore. Conspiracy theories have come into play and too many accept what they hear whether it be true or not!
Important to remind that political violence can come from either side: but comparing the aftermath of both sides right now: First: I'm heartened to see the flurry of immediate posts from Democrats (in my own state: Mikie Sherill, Corey Booker, Andy Kim and throughout the congress and Senate) condemning the violence. I didn't witness this kind of general outrage from the right when Hortman was killed, or Pelosi was attacked. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Second: Moreover, it leaves me frightened to read that Loomer and a FL R congresswoman (?) rushed to judgement and called for all "leftists" to be essentially shut down, or worse.
Third: While I share the outrage and feel for Kirk's family, I'm struck by his 2023 quote on guns: that having the occasional American killed for the sake of open gun laws was worth it. I won't forget that either.
But of course: the mature thing is to condemn the act, and then like adults (possible ?) await the arrest and actual findings.
Oh, ok. I'll stop mocking the knuckle-dragging, drooling troglodytes waving their gunz at me and threatening to kill all of us. I shouldn't do that, because it might hurt their little fee fees.
What actually happens, in the real world with real humans, is that this shit escalates to a full conflagration with lots of death and destruction. From that burned-out cinder emerges something new and stable. For a while, because nothing lasts forever. It's a cycle. It's our monkey brains at work. It's the tragedy of the human condition.
To my knowledge, there have been two geniuses to emerged in the modern era who had the moxie to redirect that otherwise inevitable process: Gandhi and MLK. People like that are a mite thin on the ground right now. And the rest of us are chimps throwing shit at each other.
Seems to me that the biggest beneficiary of this act is Trump. Charlie Kirk’s murder is being used to unify and stoke outrage among the Right, vilify the Left, and redirect the conversation away from the Epstein files. It may even serve as an excuse to send in troops to blue cities.
I agree with you that violence is unacceptable, but I find also unacceptable the both-seidism of your claim that "This is not just about one ideology or one party." No honest person would deny that extremism exists on both sides of the political spectrum, but let us not forget the actual FACTS, as reported by Mehdi Hasan in his excellent post on Zeteo (https://open.substack.com/pub/zeteo/p/charlie-kirk-killing-political-violence?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email), which I cut and pasted below.
The very juxtaposition Charlie Kirk/Melissa Hortman is tendentious and misleading. Melissa Hortman did not engage in hateful rhetoric that Charlie Kirk trafficked in. Lincoln Square contributor wrote a thoughtful and spot on post (https://open.substack.com/pub/professorealy/p/this-has-to-stop?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=post%20viewer) that decries the tragic death of Charlie Kirk, but is not blind to what Charlie Kirk did and said. I am heartbroken for Charlie Kirk's children, his widow, his family, friends and loved ones, but let us not forget who is stocking the flames of hatred here.
The man who targeted and killed Democratic state lawmaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark in their home in Minnesota in June was a Trump supporter.
The man charged with the attempted assassination of Pennsylvania’s Democratic governor Josh Shapiro in April was a Trump supporter.
The man convicted of orchestrating a series of hootings at the homes of four Democratic elected officials in New Mexico in 2022 was a Trump supporter.
The man who tried to kidnap then Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and assaulted her husband Paul in 2022 was a Trump supporter.
The men who wanted to hang Mike Pence on Jan 6, 2021, were Trump supporters.
The man who killed the son of Obama-appointed District Judge Esther Salas in 2020 was a Trump supporter.
The men who were convicted of trying to kidnap Michigan’s Democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 were Trump supporters.
The man who sent pipe bombs to the homes of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and other top Democrats in 2018 was a Trump supporter.
The man who killed left-wing activist Heather Heyer after driving his car into a crowd of counter-protesters in Charlottesville in 2017 was a Trump supporter.
I had to stop after the 'both sides' caparisons. It's BS. trump, his media death merchants and his stand back but stand by rhetoric incite violence every single day. Their actions encourage violence. Raiding home, mass arrests of brown people, deportations of American citizens, blowing up a boat carrying 11 people without knowing who they were, the constant alex jones, and right wing nutjob podcasters, fox news lunatics, and right wing owned news outlets and social media platforms promote violence. This is not both sides.
I posted this elsewhere. Forgive me for not retyping this:
The right continues to lie, and incite violence after this assassination, but they were sikent, including the grotesque trump, when a state legislator and her husband were assassinated. I guess on the right, assassinations are ok as long as it is death to the left. What did the FBI consider the biggest domestic threat? Right wing militias. This is not a both sides issue, although there is the occasional crazy on the left. Another tragic death influenced by right wing blood lust, and hatred of anything not lily white. Who knows maybe the Kirk killer was mad at him for doubting trump for a second about trump's epstein connections.
From Lincoln, to Lee Harvey Oswald, to RFK, to MLK, to More recently, Nancy Pe;osi's husband was attacked by maga freak that wanted to kill Nancy Pelosi. The maga right thinks 20 kids and teachers getting gunned down at Sandy Hook they called it a hoax. Dylan Roof guns down Black churchgoers and it was mental illness. j/6 led to deaths of five law enforcement and the right is trying to bury it. FBI calls white nationalism the greatest domestic threat and GOP says its discrimination. The right is the party of violence and protectors of pedophiles and sex traffickers. trump invades cities, arrests innocent people, ships them to countries unknown. trump blows up a boat with 11 people on it that he says ws a drug boat without any evidence. trump and doge starve millions of infants and children by ending USAID. GOP are death merchants. Yes, there are some crazies on the left, but there is absolutely no comparison to the violence from the right compared to the left.
Every needless death is a tragedy, but the right incites, encourages, and insists on violence as the response to anything and everything. Dems are trying to be kumbaya while repubs continue to demand retribution, hate, violence, and carnage.
Charlie Kirk was a monster who brought his demise on himself with his nonstop spewing of hateful, venomous rhetoric. Stop treating him like he was just an ordinary political commentator.
Too many are forgetting the students killed in Colorado. They were young people with their whole lives ahead of them. We in the NYC area remember all victims, particularly on 9/11.
Do you also remember the thousands of Chileans who died as a result of a CIA-abetted coup back on September 11th, 1973? The legally elected president of Chile, Salvador Allende, died in battle, fighting for his llife in the presidential office. All those tortured, all those dead, including the singer, the poet Victor Jara, are never mentioned by Americans on this day. Let us remember all the victims of hatred and political agendas.
I was in Egypt on September 12. Egyptians came up to me in the street : "Are you Amercian? No? - Please, tell the Americans this was not us. " There was good will towards Americans throughout the world, and it was all squandered for cheap politics and the profits of the military-industrial complex.
We don't know who killed Kirk or what their motivation was. A lot of assumptions are being made. There has been a huge rush to judgment by the media before we have the facts.
Yes it is a terrible, terrible, thing that the young was shot and killed. I have to say all the leaders on my side of the asile came out and condemmed it and asked after his wife and children.I hope the people who are against maga behave themselves. However one thing I don't want to hear is both sides stuff. Trump made fun of Paul Pelosi at his rallies .. I don't remember any out pouring of concern for the people in Minnesota that were killed in there home. My real concern today is what Trump might do with what happened yesterday .. I'm afraid for my fellow americans . He is the most dangerous man who has ever been in the WH. lost in america!
Check the image on this white dude's t-shirt -- https://media.cnn.com/api/v1/images/stellar/prod/20250911-interest.jpg?c=original&q=w_1280,c_fill/f_avif
FBI & others would like to chat with him about his marksmanship skills.
Thank you. I will remember them, as well. I had friends in Chile around that time.
Thank you, Trygve. Vitally important words in these times.
What if there was a different motivation for the shooting? For years, Charlie Kirk wanted the Epstein files released. Then he stopped talking about it. Perhaps someone is angry he is part of a cover up? The MAGA in-fighting, power struggles, competing religious extremism, disappointed believers....it's a tension kettle starting to boil over. I fear this will be worse than any "owning the libs" stuff. We don't know why Mr. Kirk was targeted. I hope the facts come quickly, so we can figure out what comes next.
I agree with you on this stuff Trygve. And you are correct about the "careless" rhetoric which has arisen and has inflamed many minds of our country. Misinformation hasn't helped either. It used to be both sides of the aisle had some semblance of TRUTHS. This isn't the case anymore. Conspiracy theories have come into play and too many accept what they hear whether it be true or not!
Important to remind that political violence can come from either side: but comparing the aftermath of both sides right now: First: I'm heartened to see the flurry of immediate posts from Democrats (in my own state: Mikie Sherill, Corey Booker, Andy Kim and throughout the congress and Senate) condemning the violence. I didn't witness this kind of general outrage from the right when Hortman was killed, or Pelosi was attacked. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Second: Moreover, it leaves me frightened to read that Loomer and a FL R congresswoman (?) rushed to judgement and called for all "leftists" to be essentially shut down, or worse.
Third: While I share the outrage and feel for Kirk's family, I'm struck by his 2023 quote on guns: that having the occasional American killed for the sake of open gun laws was worth it. I won't forget that either.
But of course: the mature thing is to condemn the act, and then like adults (possible ?) await the arrest and actual findings.
Thanks for the post.
Oh, ok. I'll stop mocking the knuckle-dragging, drooling troglodytes waving their gunz at me and threatening to kill all of us. I shouldn't do that, because it might hurt their little fee fees.
What actually happens, in the real world with real humans, is that this shit escalates to a full conflagration with lots of death and destruction. From that burned-out cinder emerges something new and stable. For a while, because nothing lasts forever. It's a cycle. It's our monkey brains at work. It's the tragedy of the human condition.
To my knowledge, there have been two geniuses to emerged in the modern era who had the moxie to redirect that otherwise inevitable process: Gandhi and MLK. People like that are a mite thin on the ground right now. And the rest of us are chimps throwing shit at each other.
Seems to me that the biggest beneficiary of this act is Trump. Charlie Kirk’s murder is being used to unify and stoke outrage among the Right, vilify the Left, and redirect the conversation away from the Epstein files. It may even serve as an excuse to send in troops to blue cities.
Exactly. How convenient.
And coming just a day or so after we see his signature is so blatantly real in the bound book. We were waiting to see how Trump would pivot from this.
I agree with you that violence is unacceptable, but I find also unacceptable the both-seidism of your claim that "This is not just about one ideology or one party." No honest person would deny that extremism exists on both sides of the political spectrum, but let us not forget the actual FACTS, as reported by Mehdi Hasan in his excellent post on Zeteo (https://open.substack.com/pub/zeteo/p/charlie-kirk-killing-political-violence?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email), which I cut and pasted below.
The very juxtaposition Charlie Kirk/Melissa Hortman is tendentious and misleading. Melissa Hortman did not engage in hateful rhetoric that Charlie Kirk trafficked in. Lincoln Square contributor wrote a thoughtful and spot on post (https://open.substack.com/pub/professorealy/p/this-has-to-stop?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=post%20viewer) that decries the tragic death of Charlie Kirk, but is not blind to what Charlie Kirk did and said. I am heartbroken for Charlie Kirk's children, his widow, his family, friends and loved ones, but let us not forget who is stocking the flames of hatred here.
List from Zeteo (https://open.substack.com/pub/zeteo/p/charlie-kirk-killing-political-violence?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email)
The man who targeted and killed Democratic state lawmaker Melissa Hortman and her husband Mark in their home in Minnesota in June was a Trump supporter.
The man charged with the attempted assassination of Pennsylvania’s Democratic governor Josh Shapiro in April was a Trump supporter.
The man convicted of orchestrating a series of hootings at the homes of four Democratic elected officials in New Mexico in 2022 was a Trump supporter.
The man who tried to kidnap then Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and assaulted her husband Paul in 2022 was a Trump supporter.
The men who wanted to hang Mike Pence on Jan 6, 2021, were Trump supporters.
The man who killed the son of Obama-appointed District Judge Esther Salas in 2020 was a Trump supporter.
The men who were convicted of trying to kidnap Michigan’s Democratic governor Gretchen Whitmer in 2020 were Trump supporters.
The man who sent pipe bombs to the homes of Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and other top Democrats in 2018 was a Trump supporter.
The man who killed left-wing activist Heather Heyer after driving his car into a crowd of counter-protesters in Charlottesville in 2017 was a Trump supporter.
very important reminders.
I had to stop after the 'both sides' caparisons. It's BS. trump, his media death merchants and his stand back but stand by rhetoric incite violence every single day. Their actions encourage violence. Raiding home, mass arrests of brown people, deportations of American citizens, blowing up a boat carrying 11 people without knowing who they were, the constant alex jones, and right wing nutjob podcasters, fox news lunatics, and right wing owned news outlets and social media platforms promote violence. This is not both sides.
I posted this elsewhere. Forgive me for not retyping this:
The right continues to lie, and incite violence after this assassination, but they were sikent, including the grotesque trump, when a state legislator and her husband were assassinated. I guess on the right, assassinations are ok as long as it is death to the left. What did the FBI consider the biggest domestic threat? Right wing militias. This is not a both sides issue, although there is the occasional crazy on the left. Another tragic death influenced by right wing blood lust, and hatred of anything not lily white. Who knows maybe the Kirk killer was mad at him for doubting trump for a second about trump's epstein connections.
From Lincoln, to Lee Harvey Oswald, to RFK, to MLK, to More recently, Nancy Pe;osi's husband was attacked by maga freak that wanted to kill Nancy Pelosi. The maga right thinks 20 kids and teachers getting gunned down at Sandy Hook they called it a hoax. Dylan Roof guns down Black churchgoers and it was mental illness. j/6 led to deaths of five law enforcement and the right is trying to bury it. FBI calls white nationalism the greatest domestic threat and GOP says its discrimination. The right is the party of violence and protectors of pedophiles and sex traffickers. trump invades cities, arrests innocent people, ships them to countries unknown. trump blows up a boat with 11 people on it that he says ws a drug boat without any evidence. trump and doge starve millions of infants and children by ending USAID. GOP are death merchants. Yes, there are some crazies on the left, but there is absolutely no comparison to the violence from the right compared to the left.
Every needless death is a tragedy, but the right incites, encourages, and insists on violence as the response to anything and everything. Dems are trying to be kumbaya while repubs continue to demand retribution, hate, violence, and carnage.
Exactly.
“America is Back – Prove me wrong”. Sadly, someone did.
Assassination is a crime, as it should be.
Reality - Live by and for Hate; die because of it -- as has always been the case.
Charlie Kirk was a monster who brought his demise on himself with his nonstop spewing of hateful, venomous rhetoric. Stop treating him like he was just an ordinary political commentator.
Too many are forgetting the students killed in Colorado. They were young people with their whole lives ahead of them. We in the NYC area remember all victims, particularly on 9/11.
Do you also remember the thousands of Chileans who died as a result of a CIA-abetted coup back on September 11th, 1973? The legally elected president of Chile, Salvador Allende, died in battle, fighting for his llife in the presidential office. All those tortured, all those dead, including the singer, the poet Victor Jara, are never mentioned by Americans on this day. Let us remember all the victims of hatred and political agendas.
I was in Egypt on September 12. Egyptians came up to me in the street : "Are you Amercian? No? - Please, tell the Americans this was not us. " There was good will towards Americans throughout the world, and it was all squandered for cheap politics and the profits of the military-industrial complex.
We don't know who killed Kirk or what their motivation was. A lot of assumptions are being made. There has been a huge rush to judgment by the media before we have the facts.