K through 8th grade in a Roman Catholic school, taught by nuns. I could talk about the experience for hours ! LOL For me, this is the thing about people choosing religion vs spirituality: Religion is for people who do not want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been through hell and do not want to return.
One last thing... when my daughter was 12-13 years old she asked me if I believed in heaven. Without hesitation I said yes. She seemed surprised and asked me why. I told her I believed in heaven because I had already experienced hell and that I believed both heaven and hell were here in this lifetime - and I've also experienced heaven on earth.
Great discussion - I am enthralled (maybe not the best word, but best I can come up with right now) with anything I can learn about how Christianity - a set of teachings that were supposed to protect the vulnerable and the poor and to make us more aware of what is truly in our hearts as humans - has become so utterly perverted and poisoned by money, power, othering, and ill-intent. I’ve pre-ordered the book - can’t wait to read it!!!
Human Decency, Compassion, and Empathy Is What Binds Us
If there is anything that comes out of Cheeto’s Nazi America is that for once in a long while WE the People are challenged to be and say who WE are WE are the citizens of a country that protect human decency, compassion, and empathy WE stand for our fellow human beings whether they are immigrants or not WE speak out when we see our fellow human beings being hurt or when they are looked at condescendingly
And WE the People stand up against a Nazi SCOTUS and all Nazis who want to look the other way and demand that WE the People are all created equal This is America and WE the People demand that hate does not exist And when WE see injustice and exhibitions of hate WE stand up to the bullying and intimidation because that’s who WE are!! Everyone else is a statement of indecency and immorality They can’t help it because that’s who they are
One of the internet explosions that came out of COVID was the launch of the Apostate Influencers. There are many, the one I know the best is Genetically Modified Skeptic. His backstory is compelling and his analysis is very intelligent. Drew (GMS) has evolved. He began super-generous and willing to engage with pretty much anybody, even when they wouldn't engage with him in completely good faith. Now, not so much. I think he's beginning to see that the 'coming back' from fundamentalism is fleetingly rare and that he himself is a unicorn; and shouldn't use his experience to inform how he understands others.
Religion has metastasized into something that is either a threat to secular civil society, or can be manipulated as a tool for such. I'm not going to get into rabbit-hole arguments of 'all religion is bad' (a straw man set on fire), but it's naïve not to recognize its threat to our freedoms and to our lives. To me, it appears to be madness, a mental contagion that destroys life and intelligence. But the view of one person hardly matters.
I support the FFRF. For me, they bring the broadest reach, smartest takes, best legal defense, and best humor to this whole shitshow. https://ffrf.org/
Yes! It's one thing to persuade and influence others to share your ideology, religion, and beliefs. It's quite another to use the law or harmful means to force them to follow them. This is why separation of church and state was a principle the white patriarchal Christian men who founded the USA advocated and supported the separation of church and state. As we have become multicultural with so many people of color, those for whom gender fluidity is essential, and immigrants from all over with different religions, cultures, and ideologies, the white Christian hegemonic position has been threatened. It's led to many people needing a strong man, and wanting an authoritarian dictator as a savior or messiah. Hopefully, more people will increasingly be able to access the divine within and treat everyone as God in drag (Richard Alpert's Rx). Until then, let's overwhelmingly support David Hope's hope for never wavering compassion, grace, clarity! Amen. And awomen too.
Ah, i went to Cahtolilc schools until grade 12. Then i went to public school and discovered that none of the teachers cared whether i was going to hell. What a relief! Very liberating to be able to study without worrtying about nuns.
My S.O. is a product of a very traditional (Sicilian) Catholic upbringing. She's been in recovery for decades, so some of the pain has eased. It's hilarious to me (I empathize, but I know there's nothing I can do about it) when she says things like "kinky sex is not that bad, but lying about it is a mortal sin!" She's not even being ironic, even when she sees the screaming absurdity of it all.
K through 8th grade in a Roman Catholic school, taught by nuns. I could talk about the experience for hours ! LOL For me, this is the thing about people choosing religion vs spirituality: Religion is for people who do not want to go to hell. Spirituality is for people who have already been through hell and do not want to return.
One last thing... when my daughter was 12-13 years old she asked me if I believed in heaven. Without hesitation I said yes. She seemed surprised and asked me why. I told her I believed in heaven because I had already experienced hell and that I believed both heaven and hell were here in this lifetime - and I've also experienced heaven on earth.
Thanks Maya !
Great discussion - I am enthralled (maybe not the best word, but best I can come up with right now) with anything I can learn about how Christianity - a set of teachings that were supposed to protect the vulnerable and the poor and to make us more aware of what is truly in our hearts as humans - has become so utterly perverted and poisoned by money, power, othering, and ill-intent. I’ve pre-ordered the book - can’t wait to read it!!!
I love the ads that tell us that Jesus was homeless /a immigrant or any of the people that they hate.
Human Decency, Compassion, and Empathy Is What Binds Us
If there is anything that comes out of Cheeto’s Nazi America is that for once in a long while WE the People are challenged to be and say who WE are WE are the citizens of a country that protect human decency, compassion, and empathy WE stand for our fellow human beings whether they are immigrants or not WE speak out when we see our fellow human beings being hurt or when they are looked at condescendingly
And WE the People stand up against a Nazi SCOTUS and all Nazis who want to look the other way and demand that WE the People are all created equal This is America and WE the People demand that hate does not exist And when WE see injustice and exhibitions of hate WE stand up to the bullying and intimidation because that’s who WE are!! Everyone else is a statement of indecency and immorality They can’t help it because that’s who they are
One of the internet explosions that came out of COVID was the launch of the Apostate Influencers. There are many, the one I know the best is Genetically Modified Skeptic. His backstory is compelling and his analysis is very intelligent. Drew (GMS) has evolved. He began super-generous and willing to engage with pretty much anybody, even when they wouldn't engage with him in completely good faith. Now, not so much. I think he's beginning to see that the 'coming back' from fundamentalism is fleetingly rare and that he himself is a unicorn; and shouldn't use his experience to inform how he understands others.
Religion has metastasized into something that is either a threat to secular civil society, or can be manipulated as a tool for such. I'm not going to get into rabbit-hole arguments of 'all religion is bad' (a straw man set on fire), but it's naïve not to recognize its threat to our freedoms and to our lives. To me, it appears to be madness, a mental contagion that destroys life and intelligence. But the view of one person hardly matters.
I support the FFRF. For me, they bring the broadest reach, smartest takes, best legal defense, and best humor to this whole shitshow. https://ffrf.org/
Yes! It's one thing to persuade and influence others to share your ideology, religion, and beliefs. It's quite another to use the law or harmful means to force them to follow them. This is why separation of church and state was a principle the white patriarchal Christian men who founded the USA advocated and supported the separation of church and state. As we have become multicultural with so many people of color, those for whom gender fluidity is essential, and immigrants from all over with different religions, cultures, and ideologies, the white Christian hegemonic position has been threatened. It's led to many people needing a strong man, and wanting an authoritarian dictator as a savior or messiah. Hopefully, more people will increasingly be able to access the divine within and treat everyone as God in drag (Richard Alpert's Rx). Until then, let's overwhelmingly support David Hope's hope for never wavering compassion, grace, clarity! Amen. And awomen too.
Ah, i went to Cahtolilc schools until grade 12. Then i went to public school and discovered that none of the teachers cared whether i was going to hell. What a relief! Very liberating to be able to study without worrtying about nuns.
My S.O. is a product of a very traditional (Sicilian) Catholic upbringing. She's been in recovery for decades, so some of the pain has eased. It's hilarious to me (I empathize, but I know there's nothing I can do about it) when she says things like "kinky sex is not that bad, but lying about it is a mortal sin!" She's not even being ironic, even when she sees the screaming absurdity of it all.
One Mahayanist sees many cultures — not just one — walking at the very narrow edge of hell realms.
Think the narrow ledge of an Andean road.
Hungry and ghostly presences are there. They are greedy to feed on your fear, and on the marrow of your soul.
That said: if hell fucks love up, then love fucks hell up.
We have weapons in this war: they are benevolence, never-wavering compassion, grace, and clarity.
When light is shined on these suppurating sores, the pus and disease dry up.
I'm digging that metaphor about light and sores. Gonna steal it.
Please do. 😊
Wisdom, no matter who speaks it, belongs to the common treasury, to all beings.