1. I do not have to agree to "listen" to the ravings of addicts and the mentally ill. My sanity matters.
2. Why are we flexible thinkers always the ones being lectured to about "listening?" Oh. Because the fixed thinkers won't listen to your advice.
3. I doubt the Founding Fathers spent much energy listening to their slaves. And Abigail Adams was probably the only woman they "listened" to.
4. I am a mathematician, a retired professor, and a woman. I listen to others and evaluate what I hear as a reflex action. But my patience with lies, nonsense, cheating, and being baited is "in the low single digits."
To me, it seems to be about empathy versus no empathy. However, whenever I engage in deep, non-political conversations with someone with opposing political views, I generally find that they are in fact entirely empathetic. They are simply passionate about issues and solutions from a different perspective. As hard as it is to believe, I am finding that person who holds the door for others or lets another driver go in front of them may have voted for the other person. Not all people are good people that have the capacity for empathy, but simply because they voted for the other person doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t care. I agree that the problem starts when we don’t take the time to understand each other. I blame this on the politicians and pundits who genuinely do seem to lack empathy. I think it would be an interesting experiment to see how the discourse evolves if we move to a ranked choice voting system. My guess is that those in opposition would only be the self-serving politicians.
Would we be having these discussions about civility, understanding, mutual respect, and just plain listening were it not for Trump? Why did one individual become the focal point for so much controversy, confusion, and conflict? Did he start this whole thing, the anxiety, the anger, the hostility toward seemingly innocuous groups and POVs? No, but he revels in the disturbance and profits from the distractions.
Together with ultra-consumerism and consumption, our anxiety about our political discourse has thrown a lot of us and a lot of families into such a tizzy that we’ve become afraid of our fellow citizens and the groups we form.
Greed is my go-to “#1 cause” of this overarching problem. In all its forms. Get mine first, get all I can, get it and go. And why not? Our leaders do it, our celebrities do it, our businesses do it, and so on. Throw in fear mongering. Toss in aggressive rhetoric. Add some or a lot of closed-minded thinking, and top it off with as much personal anxiety as you want and then stuff it all into your brain and save the leftovers for tomorrow. A recipe for all sorts of fun and bad habits.
I believe Mr. Olson's views are genuine and heartfelt, but with all due respect, we have been reading about this "we need to listen to each other" idea since 2016. And I've listened. I've listened to coworkers who were MAGA, and relatives, and neighbors, and I've watched Fox and Newsmax. I've heard them. And what I've heard, and continue to hear, is fundamentally unAmerican. I'll keep listening because I don't have a choice--if nothing else I have to listen to Trump's lies, idiotic statements, and hatefull rhetoric, in some form, every single day. That said, I will continue to speak out against this authoritarian creep every day, whether or not anyone who still supports Trump wants to listen to me or not.
The essential problem here is that far too many of us apparently don’t understand the true nature of the American experiment - the most extraordinary, the most crucial, the riskiest, and the most complex ongoing experiment in human society and government ever attempted.
The Founders, for all their flaws, and after four millennia during which the dominant form of government around the world was top down rule, challenged us to see if We the People. could together find just enough of the courage, the honesty, the compassion, the understanding, the tolerance, the humility, the humor, the wisdom, the hope, and the sheer common sense to rule ourselves from the bottom up with as much justice and equity as is humanly possible. Doing so would be the true definition of American Exceptionalism, a state we have never reached, but towards which we should be constantly striving.
But nearly half of American voters have just re-elected to the presidency a man who has no concept of the nature of our experiment, and thus no concern for maintaining it. That signifies to me an appalling lack of understanding of who we were designed to be.
I’m not unaware of all the ‘kitchen table’ issues, or the problems both political parties have managed to create along our southern border, or the problems with our economy, or in our relationships with other countries. But I’ve been teaching American history for over 40 years and I know if and when we have gone off the rails, and I know that in electing a man like Donald Trump, we are in the process of doing so in a way utterly new in our history.
That is the conversation we need to be having, and far too many of us simply refuse to even consider having it.
I wish there were a class on this. I would love to know how to respond to someone who says it was okay to kill the two men clinging to the boat. I would love to know how to respond to someone who says, "Immigrants get what they deserve. I have no sympathy for them." I can feel my anger rise from my very being just by hearing these responses. Or, better yet, Trump was sent by God, so whatever he is doing is part of God's plan for our country.
I also wish there was a class on this . It’s very difficult to understand how many of them feel that he was chosen by God and accept all the corruption and cruelty based on this premise..It literally makes me sick to my stomach. I even left the church I attended because of this.. They have changed following the teachings of Jesus Christ to trump is the “chosen one., It’s truly heartbreaking..There has never been a President who that in spite of policies differences , governed as leaders of the nation as a whole..
When a close family member starts responding in Newsmax chyrons to a discussion about any number of volatile things, I ask them “but tell me what YOU think based on your own values”. Angry hurrumphs. I mention something openly corrupt Trump is doing and the response is always “Well Joe Biden did blah blah…” I decided to reply “Ok you are right, Biden was very wrong to do XYZ. So you undoubtedly want your president to be so much better than that and not break laws or be corrupt, correct?” And their reply is always defending poor victim Trump having his rightful revenge & all negative news about him is fake. I’ve decided to preserve my own sanity by keeping any discussions light & superficial after telling this person we can’t intellectually connect while living in two separate universes of reality. Like arguing with a flat earther.
Not talking about politics or religion is a time-honored rule of social interaction. Now more than ever, a person’s political views reveal their moral values and priorities, which to me is a major factor in whether or not I can have a close relationship with them. I have.two close friends who, despite sharing my values, I believe voted differently than I did. Both seem to be largely single-issue voters, one (a devout Catholic) on the issue of abortion and the other (a retired immigration officer) on the subject of a strong border. One occasionally brings up his thoughts, most recently on the subject of the Charlie Kirk assassination, and I share mine as thoughtfully and with as much nuance as I can. The other and I have agreed to disagree and try to avoid the topic of politics altogether. Both of them are intelligent people to whom I don’t think it’s necessary to point out things, and I feel that anything I might say would come off as “I told you so “. I also believe that a big factor is where people get their news.
Listening is a quality/ behavior that none of us do too well even when done in nonchallenging discussions. As a friend or group member speaks we are generally thinking about what we are going to say. I tell myself to listen and then speak or add to the conversation, but I slip easily back into thinking about what I want to say. When I do that, I am not listening. At the present I find it impossible to stay focused on listening to any conversation that lifts up detaining immigrants, ICE, and Christian Nationalism, etc. But I have learned that I get so angry that I can neither listen nor speak well. Thinking flies out the window. As always you gave great reminders to listen...Next step as I listen, I need to quite my mind to actually hear what is being said. Thank you Trygve. And yes, we all need hope. Take care.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I, for one, refuse to waste one single brain cell trying to bridge the divide with anyone who still supports Trump and his criminal regime. I don't care if they try to claim it was all about the cost of living, you cannot continue to support this criminal cabal after it has sown so much destruction, hate and pain. The racism and misogyny cannot be ignored. The masked violent thugs on the streets cannot be ignored. The war crimes cannot be ignored. And the corruption cannot be ignored. And if you still support Trump, you support all of that, and as such you are dead to me.
1. I do not have to agree to "listen" to the ravings of addicts and the mentally ill. My sanity matters.
2. Why are we flexible thinkers always the ones being lectured to about "listening?" Oh. Because the fixed thinkers won't listen to your advice.
3. I doubt the Founding Fathers spent much energy listening to their slaves. And Abigail Adams was probably the only woman they "listened" to.
4. I am a mathematician, a retired professor, and a woman. I listen to others and evaluate what I hear as a reflex action. But my patience with lies, nonsense, cheating, and being baited is "in the low single digits."
Well said! Thank you for this post.
To me, it seems to be about empathy versus no empathy. However, whenever I engage in deep, non-political conversations with someone with opposing political views, I generally find that they are in fact entirely empathetic. They are simply passionate about issues and solutions from a different perspective. As hard as it is to believe, I am finding that person who holds the door for others or lets another driver go in front of them may have voted for the other person. Not all people are good people that have the capacity for empathy, but simply because they voted for the other person doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t care. I agree that the problem starts when we don’t take the time to understand each other. I blame this on the politicians and pundits who genuinely do seem to lack empathy. I think it would be an interesting experiment to see how the discourse evolves if we move to a ranked choice voting system. My guess is that those in opposition would only be the self-serving politicians.
Would we be having these discussions about civility, understanding, mutual respect, and just plain listening were it not for Trump? Why did one individual become the focal point for so much controversy, confusion, and conflict? Did he start this whole thing, the anxiety, the anger, the hostility toward seemingly innocuous groups and POVs? No, but he revels in the disturbance and profits from the distractions.
Together with ultra-consumerism and consumption, our anxiety about our political discourse has thrown a lot of us and a lot of families into such a tizzy that we’ve become afraid of our fellow citizens and the groups we form.
Greed is my go-to “#1 cause” of this overarching problem. In all its forms. Get mine first, get all I can, get it and go. And why not? Our leaders do it, our celebrities do it, our businesses do it, and so on. Throw in fear mongering. Toss in aggressive rhetoric. Add some or a lot of closed-minded thinking, and top it off with as much personal anxiety as you want and then stuff it all into your brain and save the leftovers for tomorrow. A recipe for all sorts of fun and bad habits.
We must start talking to understand, not to win.
The problem is lame duck a l’orange talks too much and morons agree with him. Speaking with others will not cure that.
I believe Mr. Olson's views are genuine and heartfelt, but with all due respect, we have been reading about this "we need to listen to each other" idea since 2016. And I've listened. I've listened to coworkers who were MAGA, and relatives, and neighbors, and I've watched Fox and Newsmax. I've heard them. And what I've heard, and continue to hear, is fundamentally unAmerican. I'll keep listening because I don't have a choice--if nothing else I have to listen to Trump's lies, idiotic statements, and hatefull rhetoric, in some form, every single day. That said, I will continue to speak out against this authoritarian creep every day, whether or not anyone who still supports Trump wants to listen to me or not.
The essential problem here is that far too many of us apparently don’t understand the true nature of the American experiment - the most extraordinary, the most crucial, the riskiest, and the most complex ongoing experiment in human society and government ever attempted.
The Founders, for all their flaws, and after four millennia during which the dominant form of government around the world was top down rule, challenged us to see if We the People. could together find just enough of the courage, the honesty, the compassion, the understanding, the tolerance, the humility, the humor, the wisdom, the hope, and the sheer common sense to rule ourselves from the bottom up with as much justice and equity as is humanly possible. Doing so would be the true definition of American Exceptionalism, a state we have never reached, but towards which we should be constantly striving.
But nearly half of American voters have just re-elected to the presidency a man who has no concept of the nature of our experiment, and thus no concern for maintaining it. That signifies to me an appalling lack of understanding of who we were designed to be.
I’m not unaware of all the ‘kitchen table’ issues, or the problems both political parties have managed to create along our southern border, or the problems with our economy, or in our relationships with other countries. But I’ve been teaching American history for over 40 years and I know if and when we have gone off the rails, and I know that in electing a man like Donald Trump, we are in the process of doing so in a way utterly new in our history.
That is the conversation we need to be having, and far too many of us simply refuse to even consider having it.
I wish there were a class on this. I would love to know how to respond to someone who says it was okay to kill the two men clinging to the boat. I would love to know how to respond to someone who says, "Immigrants get what they deserve. I have no sympathy for them." I can feel my anger rise from my very being just by hearing these responses. Or, better yet, Trump was sent by God, so whatever he is doing is part of God's plan for our country.
I also wish there was a class on this . It’s very difficult to understand how many of them feel that he was chosen by God and accept all the corruption and cruelty based on this premise..It literally makes me sick to my stomach. I even left the church I attended because of this.. They have changed following the teachings of Jesus Christ to trump is the “chosen one., It’s truly heartbreaking..There has never been a President who that in spite of policies differences , governed as leaders of the nation as a whole..
When a close family member starts responding in Newsmax chyrons to a discussion about any number of volatile things, I ask them “but tell me what YOU think based on your own values”. Angry hurrumphs. I mention something openly corrupt Trump is doing and the response is always “Well Joe Biden did blah blah…” I decided to reply “Ok you are right, Biden was very wrong to do XYZ. So you undoubtedly want your president to be so much better than that and not break laws or be corrupt, correct?” And their reply is always defending poor victim Trump having his rightful revenge & all negative news about him is fake. I’ve decided to preserve my own sanity by keeping any discussions light & superficial after telling this person we can’t intellectually connect while living in two separate universes of reality. Like arguing with a flat earther.
Not talking about politics or religion is a time-honored rule of social interaction. Now more than ever, a person’s political views reveal their moral values and priorities, which to me is a major factor in whether or not I can have a close relationship with them. I have.two close friends who, despite sharing my values, I believe voted differently than I did. Both seem to be largely single-issue voters, one (a devout Catholic) on the issue of abortion and the other (a retired immigration officer) on the subject of a strong border. One occasionally brings up his thoughts, most recently on the subject of the Charlie Kirk assassination, and I share mine as thoughtfully and with as much nuance as I can. The other and I have agreed to disagree and try to avoid the topic of politics altogether. Both of them are intelligent people to whom I don’t think it’s necessary to point out things, and I feel that anything I might say would come off as “I told you so “. I also believe that a big factor is where people get their news.
Listening is a quality/ behavior that none of us do too well even when done in nonchallenging discussions. As a friend or group member speaks we are generally thinking about what we are going to say. I tell myself to listen and then speak or add to the conversation, but I slip easily back into thinking about what I want to say. When I do that, I am not listening. At the present I find it impossible to stay focused on listening to any conversation that lifts up detaining immigrants, ICE, and Christian Nationalism, etc. But I have learned that I get so angry that I can neither listen nor speak well. Thinking flies out the window. As always you gave great reminders to listen...Next step as I listen, I need to quite my mind to actually hear what is being said. Thank you Trygve. And yes, we all need hope. Take care.
I appreciate the sentiment, but I, for one, refuse to waste one single brain cell trying to bridge the divide with anyone who still supports Trump and his criminal regime. I don't care if they try to claim it was all about the cost of living, you cannot continue to support this criminal cabal after it has sown so much destruction, hate and pain. The racism and misogyny cannot be ignored. The masked violent thugs on the streets cannot be ignored. The war crimes cannot be ignored. And the corruption cannot be ignored. And if you still support Trump, you support all of that, and as such you are dead to me.
You have pretty much just summed up exactly how I feel.